Luciano Pia Centrale di accumulo Iren Energia, Torino

Ten years after the publication of the “25 verde” residences in «Casabella» (see issue no. 822, February 2013), Francesca Chiorino returns to interview Luciano Pia in the wake of the recent opening of a new heat storage hub for district heating of Iren Energia at San Salvario in Turin.
FC Before getting to your latest project for Iren, I would like to talk briefly about some of the important phases of your background and your work. University studies in Turin, the legacy of Mollino, the relationship with the professors, such as Gabetti & Isola, for example, and then the professional partnership with Andrea Bruno: what remains of those years?
LP At the university, attending courses, I came into contact with Roberto Gabetti, and I have remained connected to Sisto Giriodi, an architect and photographer who works on the constructed legacy of Gabetti & Isola and the territory of Piedmont. I closely observed Jaretti and Luzi and the Turin heritage in general, those architects who have approached the profession with a certain amount of originality, first of all Carlo Mollino. Then I began to work on a steady basis with Andrea Bruno, and together we did various projects of restoration and refurbishing, which allowed me to explore a different vision of construction, perhaps a more correct one. Let me explain: when we build something new on open ground, we in any case establish a relationship with the context.
FC Regarding the context of “25 verde,” I remember that during our last interview you talked about the introverted character of the building, which in the absence of any particular urban quality in the surroundings was made to look inward. I had a chance to return to “25 verde” with you after ten years, and I saw flourishing vegetation, a temperature difference of several degrees between Via Chiabrera and the internal courtyard. The inhabitants were enthusiastic about living in such an extraordinary, anomalous place, that brings people closer to nature even in the center of the city. A first question about the new Iren complex at San Salvario is related to this: without the experience of “25 verde,” completed and now utilized, would you have dared to propose such a complex experimental project to a large company like Iren?
LP I don’t think so. The “25 verde” project has been fundamental to be able to imagine the next step. The San Salvario facility stems from Iren’s request which at first was quite different, a sort of green skin to camouflage the heat storage plant. Instead, I proposed doing something more structured, a space that could be enjoyed and utilized for the city, that would be at the service of the company and also for local residents. It would be the completion of an urban block, in short a portion of the territory, inserted in the city, halfway between a natural element and an urban element. For this reason, the building/garden enters the profiles and angles of the construction, an inserted volume that feels totally natural.
FC Did Iren and its decision-makers see “25 verde” before starting this adventure?
LP Yes, they saw it, but I must say that they were very skeptical and resistant. Until that moment they had made other choices, and initially they disguised the power plants with decorative steel blades. It was not always easy, on various levels, to go forward with the project in a coherent way. For example, Iren had initially placed the tanks and the pumping station in a very different way from what happened in the final construction. Luckily I was already involved, and so I was able to turn the entire footprint, making it possible to fully build this sort of hill with southern exposure. I continued until the definitive design, and then Iren turned to a single contractor for the final drawings and the work supervision. Both the engineering team, specialized in steel structures, and the contractor were up to the task. I acted as an artistic director, reviewing and approving all the drawings.
FC In the overview of works you have built, the design of an infrastructure seems like a novelty. Do you think this opportunity leads to the potential of extension in other projects in the future?
LP It had never happened before, and it was very interesting. Iren gave me the tank and the physical plant system as existing givens, so in practice it was like a sort of restoration, an existing building on which to intervene. I believe this way of working could be extended to all technological facilities, it could be a way of giving them greater integration, while leaving their functionality intact.
FC Iren did camouflage. What you have done was to transform a project that began as simple decoration into a spatial design through which to walk, and a project of space donated to the city. I think this is a great value that should be understood: to have created a spatial situation where it seemed to be impossible before.
LP It is necessary to do something that is useful, that has a purpose. Today the neighbors –and I also imagine the people passing through in trains, on the adjacent tracks– are pleased, although when construction began there was fierce criticism and a general lack of comprehension of the final objective.
FC You certainly deserve credit for having taken the clients compactly into a new, anomalous and also controversial operation. They have demonstrated a certain bravery, and above all a strategic vision, understanding that this operation, in terms of what is called “storytelling” today, is extraordinarily effective.
LP Iren was not convinced of this approach at first, it was a process, and now the company is gradually taking hold of the place and its potential. It has been a project of synergy, taken forward in a favorable moment for the company. In these years they too have changed, they have widened their range of action, changed their physiognomy, also to achieve a credibility that differs from their competitors. I have strongly urged that this be a new urban place that welcomes different activities, educational encounters and experiences, concerts and so on.
FC One of the fixed points of your “theory” is “the sustainability of the project as a primary value. Sustainability –or the best result obtainable with minimum impact– has to be understood from the viewpoint of energy, environment, economics and usability on the part of the inhabitants,” I read on your website. Again in this case, you have been a pioneer.
LP Unfortunately, everything we do destroys something that exists and deprives future generations of the possibility to do something else. We try to make things that have a meaning, and are not only aimed at the design, or the satisfaction of building something. I see that many of our colleagues make projects that are an end in themselves, to have nice photographs and to be seen in magazines. I start from the end, from the concept that what I makes will serve someone who will use it, and that the person who uses it will be satisfied. Another important aspect is to find the right people with whom to go forward with projects, and depending on the people we find we can do things that otherwise could not be done. We are not alone and we cannot act as we wish; we have to work with others. Sometimes I have hoped not to win competitions, because I could see that the people in my team or the clients did not fully share my ideas.
FC Besides making buildings with low impact, you seem to have a zero-impact approach to life and the profession. We will get back to this later. Now I would like you to frame the project for us from a structural standpoint. The three large tanks, 8 meters in diameter by 24 meters in height, are self-supporting – how does the pathway inside them function?
LP The tanks are completely independent from the rest of the structure. The steps that permit testing of the thermostats are also independent, they have their own structure and have hinges on the thresholds to dynamically cling to the tanks. The two structures, in fact, move in different ways; the tanks always have the same height, while the rest of the paths sway and change shape from winter to summer.
FC Does the powerful imagery unleashed by this project of domeshaped tanks and routes –sometimes resembling abandoned industrial buildings that have been invaded by nature– have literary or artistic roots, or is it the result of your close study of nature? In effect, you create almost dream-like impressions that seem in part to be disconnected from the contemporary debate on architecture.
LP I like nature very much, and what I have tried to make is an environment that is as natural as possible. I have attempted to keep the work from seeming designed and artificial, to make it appear as a whole to be the result of an action of gathering a parcel of nature and transporting it to this location.
FC Do you envision a transformation? In “25 verde” I was struck by the change of the vegetation over the last ten years, and I imagine the same thing could happen for Iren. What is your position regarding works of architecture in evolution?
LP The transformation will happen even more for Iren, because the entire green part has a greater possibility to grow, since the planters are decidedly larger and taller, so they have more earth, a fundamental factor for the health of the plants. The “pots” range from two to three meters in height, while at “25 verde” the planters at the various levels have a height of 1.4 m. At Iren the thousands of trees, climbing shrubs and ground cover will develop upward and also outward along the elevations. So to get to your question, this is a work of architecture whose evolution can be foreseen in part but not completely, a work of architecture that is not fixed. Normally architects envision a certain thing and then they want it to be always the same, while instead I prefer the opposite, to make something that then becomes something else along the way, both during the design process and afterwards in the lifetime of the work.
FC In effect, the botanical material lends itself to this unforeseen and unpredictable evolution. Likewise, the inhabitants of the buildings change their story, because use grants them the possibility of altering the physiognomy. In the case of Iren and of “25 verde” besides the people who use the buildings, I imagine other inhabitants also come into play. Is that true?
LP At “25 verde” there are ducks that have nested there, many squirrels and various species of birds. At Iren it will be even easier, since the animals will not be disturbed by fixed tenants. Another fundamental factor is the bacterial part of the substrate, which over time becomes increasingly useful and vital. knowledge is striking. I know that you have always had an important role in the final choice of the plants, in dialogue with the landscape designers. It is interesting that for you the greenery is not an addition to the architecture; since everything is formulated with a great symbiosis of meaning, the greenery is treated in a spatially significant, not merely ornamental way.
LP For me, architecture and structure develop together, and the same is true of the artificial and natural parts. There is a close bond.
FC I would say that this concept is clearly legible, at Iren, at “25 verde” and also at Casa Hollywood.
LP At Casa Hollywood it is a different concept. There was the problem of a small lot, and the strong existing presence of the stage of the theater, the theme of the passage from a building of the 1950s to one from the 1800s, and the issue of the heavy traffic to be resolved. The project stems from the desire to guarantee the view of the Giardini Reali and Guarini’s cupola. The aim of the façade at the back was precisely to reinterpret the fragmentary character of the cupola.
FC I remember another recent project of yours that has a close relationship with the landscape, in this case in Sardinia. What is its story?
LP The owner of a large garden on the island of La Maddalena, although the land could have been developed with over 1000 square meters of construction, wanted me to build less than 100. I thought about four nuclei of a single residence, like nests at the level of the existing trees, connected by a footbridge. There was the problem of a lack of air circulation; if you do not move to a higher level you cannot reach the air flow, and living becomes unsustainable due to the heat. The nests address the theme of the granite boulders found so often in Gallura; they are structurally supported by steel pillars and have a skin sprayed on with crushed granite, like shotcrete. So these are small grottos protected from the sun, with very small openings. Unfortunately the project is not moving forward, for the moment, although somehow I would like to return to these ideas.
FC Your recent professional activity calls for living half the year on a boat in Sardinia, spending the other half in Piedmont and Valle d’Aosta, amidst the mountains of Gressoney. Your proximity to nature seems to be above all autobiographical, and perhaps this explains some of your design themes. At the same time, observing your projects, it becomes clear that you establish professional relationships based on your location of residence. Can you explain this very particular system of work?
LP I don’t look for work and I don’t look for contacts. But when I am in a place I like to understand how it functions, and to intervene by interacting with people. If you do not do things with local people you will always be a tourist, and you will never be able to understand the territory. If you want to understand it, you have to enter its dynamics. Then, I should say that most of these things are done free of charge.
FC This aspect of generosity and returning something to territories is quite unusual on the professional scene, and it effectively goes well with the structure of your studio, which continues to be composed of you alone, if I understand it correctly.
LP The big advantage of this working system is that once you have eaten and quenched your thirst you’re all done. I don’t have large requirements. And I am free.